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Post by Jocasta on Nov 6, 2004 20:34:03 GMT
Ooh.. *scribbles in notepad* What do you think makes a good hero/ine and villain? Chiru, you're full of great questions! And I'm a bit nervous about anyone going as far as note-padding my comments, but here goes... You could say that a good hero and villain have the same characteristic--they both think they're right. Only in the hero's case, we all agree. But that's a bit trite. I think the best opposition between hero and villain happens when both of them represent causes that are just. Like Daac and Parrish. Daac is trying to save his people--what's wrong with that? It's the way he does it that is the problem, the means he uses to achieve his end. Parrish is the hero (I use the word ungendered) because she realises that the means do not justify the end. But the conflict between them is epic because we can...almost...see Daac's point of view. So love your villains, give them a cause to match that of your hero, and then you'll get conflict that lets both of them live in the reader's mind. As for the best hero? I have a preference for ordinary people in extraordinary situations, doing the best they can and rising above themselves, achieving things they couldn't have imagined possible. Why this preference? Because I'm a verrrrrry ordinary person, and it gives me a thrill to imagine that in some alternate dimension, I could be a hero. And besides, superheroes are boring. Lots of faults=lots of interesting plot possibilities. But if the *villain* is a superhero pitted against this ordinary person--well, then the story is going to be good. What does everyone else think? MM
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Post by Jocasta on Nov 6, 2004 20:47:14 GMT
When do you know you've got it? and by it, i dont been the writing bug but when you've found your niche and aint movin? I'm seventeen and re-reading stuff i wrote at the beggining of this year and comparing it with now is just weird, they are like two completely different people, Cj, I don't by any means feel I have 'got it'. I hate to disillusion you, but I don't know any serious professional writer who feels like that. (OTOH, you don't have to worry that you haven't *got it*!) Seriously, every book is different, every story is a struggle. I look at stuff I wrote at the beginning of this year and feel uneasy, too. It's certainly to be expected at your tender age (no offence meant, I realise you're an adult, just not as wrinkled and flabby an adult as me) when your style will be changing and developing. I think what you will find, though, is that after a while the technical aspect of writing becomes easier--things like sentence structure, punctuation (very important), dialogue flow, scene pacing and closure--all this stuff gets easier with practice. So then you can concentrate more on the meaning of what you're writing. In the meantime, keep changing and growing, and treasure your work as record of that growth. You'll never 'get there', because writing isn't about a goal. It's about the doing something. We do it because it is an end in itself, like any art/skill/craft. There's a great quote about this (and I'll have to confirm later whose words): "Writing is the only thing that, when I'm doing it, I don't feel like I should be doing something else." Enjoy it. MM PS An assignment for you: read "The Dispossessed" by Ursula Le Guin.
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Post by Chirugal on Nov 6, 2004 23:37:56 GMT
Chiru, you're full of great questions! And I'm a bit nervous about anyone going as far as note-padding my comments, but here goes... Well, I like the answers you give! ;D And I think you make a lot of common sense that I should originally have seen anyway but for some reason didn't. Okay, another question... hmmm... What do you reckon is a 'good' length for a short story?
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Post by marianne on Nov 7, 2004 1:08:28 GMT
Hi Patchers
the good news is that Maxine has agreed to stay at the Patch for one more week, until Sunday 14th (of course she's welcome any time anyway!). Queensland's newspaper The Courier Mail has announced her presence here when they reviewed her book yesterday, so we may get some newbies.
Happy chatting!
best MDP
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Post by Chirugal on Nov 7, 2004 1:50:46 GMT
Well, we love you just as much, Marianne! Ooh, newbies... maybe we should have an initiation ritual...
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Post by Mouse on Nov 7, 2004 13:02:25 GMT
I love reading/writing heroes that aren't perfect. In fact, I like it better when they're seriously flawed. Which makes them ordinary I guess, because we're all flawed in one way or another. And you should always be able to understand where the villain is coming from, even if you dont agree with it. I'm all for the greyness, none of that black and white stuff where the hero is totally wonderful and the villain is totally evil. I think I pretty much just agree with you Maxine, so I shall be quiet now. Wait, no, I have a question to throw out there: what comes first for you, a plot and world, or characters from which everything else then grows? *Mouse's inane curiousity strikes again* ;D
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GrimmRiffer
Tert Player
P-S-Y-C-H-O-P-A-T-H
Respectfully obeying the laws of physics on British roads since 1993
Posts: 142
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Post by GrimmRiffer on Nov 7, 2004 13:41:04 GMT
...I'm all for the greyness, none of that black and white stuff where the hero is totally wonderful and the villain is totally evil. I think I pretty much just agree with you Maxine, so I shall be quiet now. Wait, no, I have a question to throw out there: what comes first for you, a plot and world, or characters from which everything else then grows? *Mouse's inane curiousity strikes again* ;D I agree with everyone's hero/villain stuff here - basically explains why Batman is better than Superman. As for where people start - I keep having great ideas for a single scene, or a colourful monologe, or blah, and then realise there's no story to put it in. Is that unusual? I have this vision that authors should map out timelines and histories for each character before they launch in ... in fact that sounds like ... "story engineering".
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Post by Mouse on Nov 7, 2004 13:49:31 GMT
I always get characters jumping up and down demanding I tell their story... is that abnormal?
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Post by Chirugal on Nov 7, 2004 17:11:05 GMT
Oh, I totally get that too, Mouse. ;D
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Post by Cj on Nov 7, 2004 19:19:20 GMT
I cant believe i didnt see that, i guess i figured when a writer gets published thats cos they've reached their peak (so to speak) I think i understand it better now, Thanks! concerning Villians and Heros, the villian has to litterly make your insides scream, and the hero has got to fix dat! And i'm all for dark heros who arent snow white but are still the one to save the day About characters mine never be still, my head its goin crazy with em! never directly talkin to me though, more like replaying scenes over and over and over and over.........
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Post by marianne on Nov 8, 2004 4:02:42 GMT
Well, we love you just as much, Marianne! Thanks Amy! edited for quote-tag - Amy
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Post by marianne on Nov 8, 2004 4:07:43 GMT
I always get characters jumping up and down demanding I tell their story... is that abnormal? Hi Mouse, not at all. It's usually a character or a setting for me. Sometimes it grows from one particular scene. Sometimes it's just a whiff of an idea - tantalising and just out of reach so that you just have to try and catch it. MDP edited for quote-tag - Amy
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Post by Jocasta on Nov 8, 2004 5:31:55 GMT
Okay, another question... hmmm... What do you reckon is a 'good' length for a short story? That's a bit like asking how long is a piece of string... Depends on the story--a quick "idea-bite" can be 500 words long and work. But most of the classic sf short stories that really stick in your mind are probably about 5,000 words long (now you'll all probably come up with classic stories that are shorter!), mainly because in anything shorter you have to work really really hard, or at least much harder, to build a world. I find short stories very difficult, because of this compressed world-building. But if you're writing mainstream fiction, you'll find a lot of competitions and magazines ask for stories up to 3,000 words, possibly because mainstream stories don't need a lot of world-building. Just write it and see how long it gets. But beware, you might have a new novel! Maxine
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Post by Jocasta on Nov 8, 2004 5:34:20 GMT
I always get characters jumping up and down demanding I tell their story... is that abnormal? Hi Mouse, not at all. It's usually a character or a setting for me. Sometimes it grows from one particular scene. Sometimes it's just a whiff of an idea - tantalising and just out of reach so that you just have to try and catch it. MDP Agreed. Anything can be the start of a story--a dream, a character, a situation...often it's a couple of ideas/characters coming together and suddenly you have liftoff! MM
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Post by Jocasta on Nov 8, 2004 5:37:11 GMT
I agree with everyone's hero/villain stuff here - basically explains why Batman is better than Superman. As for where people start - I keep having great ideas for a single scene, or a colourful monologe, or blah, and then realise there's no story to put it in. Is that unusual? I have this vision that authors should map out timelines and histories for each character before they launch in ... in fact that sounds like ... "story engineering". Hi GR, I have whole notebooks full of scraps that need stories to live in. Maybe some day they'll all find homes. But I think it's a good idea to write them down when they come to you, or you might need them one day and they'll have disappeared. I've heard the timelines/histories idea, too. Sounds a lot like work. Not that you don't have to think about your characters, but if getting it all together starts to put you off the story, forget it. MM
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