|
Post by Chirugal on Nov 1, 2004 22:21:53 GMT
Thanks, Maxine! I'll bear this in mind. And GR, for me, it really varies. Sometimes it takes me hours, and sometimes not long at all. The other day I wrote 500 words in an hour, and that'd be about my average, I think. Really need to work on this... :s
|
|
|
Post by marianne on Nov 1, 2004 23:08:01 GMT
You're not the only one who has problems with this! (It's a question I'd like to ask Marianne, actually, as I think she has a totally unique voice. Hi all, hmmm... you can attack this problem from many sides. While voice is very important, it's not something to get self conscious about. I think it's a lot easier to reveal in first person because everything you write is from a single person perspective. If you know that character well (which you should) then the voice flows. For instance, I've read criticisms of NA and CN that the prose is banal. This seems an irrelevent criticism to me. The books are totally in submerged in Parrish's POV - if I got all lyrical and esoteric in my language it would totally destroy her voice. Third person is harder. I think the important thing is to challenge every sentence you write. Ask yourself...is this a cliche, is this a trope...how would this character think, speak, react - can I say this in a better way to get inside their head. Often when people start writing fantasy they get sucked into using standard vocab and images. Challenge those things and stretch your imagination and you will find voice. Amy, sounds like you need to find a world you want to play in... so fiddle around with some world building and all of a sudden you'll want to be there more than in other writer's worlds. Not that there's anything wrong with fanfic. I would LOVE to write for Farscape. Fanfic is also an excellent grounding for mechanics and craft. The next step is to unbridle your own imagination. Whew! I'll stop now. back to work. MDP edited for quote-tag - Amy
|
|
|
Post by Chirugal on Nov 1, 2004 23:51:26 GMT
*cheers* YAY FOR FARSCAPE! ;D The Peacekeeper Wars was so great! Okay, I think that's a great idea, actually. I'll try and build up my own world, it's still a bit sketchy. And if I ever get round to some proper writing, I'll put up the result in original for you guys.
|
|
|
Post by Jocasta on Nov 2, 2004 10:51:06 GMT
RE: Speed. Just how fast do any of you write? I tried rekindling my writing "ability" and took 3 hours to write 2 pages. Seems blinking slow to me. I write very slowly, compared to some people. Probably an average of 1-2 pages (250-word pages) per hour, although if it's dialogue maybe more. If I'm starting a book, probably less. Your 3 hours for 2 pages sounds quite normal to me. After an hour or so I have to go and have a little rest. No stamina! But hey, it's not really an issue. Doesn't matter how long it takes you to write what you want to write, so long as it gets onto the page eventually. What do the others think? (these conversations are such fun--thanks for inviting me, Marianne!) ;D MM edited for quote-tag - Amy
|
|
|
Post by Chirugal on Nov 2, 2004 11:10:32 GMT
Wow! Such a relief that I write about as fast as a published author (seeing as I want to be one...)!
How many principal characters do you think you can reasonably get away with without overcrowding? (Does that make sense?)
|
|
|
Post by Cj on Nov 2, 2004 18:01:48 GMT
i used to have deadlines of 10,000 words a week but that stopped since halfway through i realised i wasnt sure where i was going ........ since i fixed the plot (involved complete change) meant i stopped my 10,000 thing, now i write a chapter every few weeks. not sure dat helps GR i kinda fall into a time sync when i write, its daylight then all of a sudden its twilight and i cant see passed fifteen inches ;D Amy you wanna know the same answers that i do I am also wondering about the crowding factor is it dangerous to have too many main characters or fairly main characters, as in like six....
|
|
|
Post by Chirugal on Nov 2, 2004 19:18:03 GMT
I have 6. I'm wondering if I should push 3 or 4 into the background a bit.
|
|
|
Post by Jocasta on Nov 2, 2004 19:53:56 GMT
Wow! Such a relief that I write about as fast as a published author (seeing as I want to be one...)! How many principal characters do you think you can reasonably get away with without overcrowding? (Does that make sense?) Hiya guys It's 7am in Canberra, windy and about 12 degrees (Celcius). Regarding numbers of characters: I'm pretty conservative in this matter, simply because I prefer reading books with one or two main characters, and also I get terribly confused when I'm writing more than that. I like to get up-close-and-intimate with the main characters, and it's hard to do that if you've got a dozen of them AND all those plot lines... That said, if you think the story needs it and you can devote enough time to 6 characters (and you mean 6 points of view, right?), write it and see what happens. But I think you still have to decide whose story it is--that is, which character changes the most in the end. It doesn't have to be the point of view character, either--look at The Great Gatsby, or the Sherlock Holmes books, where the story about the main character is told by a supporting character. But lots of people like reading stories about a huge cast (hence popularity of Eddings etc), so give it a go. And in fanfic or series writing, also, you need to include the whole cast. So it's probably a good talent to cultivate. 'ave a good day MM
|
|
|
Post by BrisVegasGrrl on Nov 3, 2004 12:02:41 GMT
Hey Maxine,
It's most definitely not 12 degrees in Brisbane at the moment.
Question for you... you are really good at melding genres, especially crime and science fiction. Have you picked up any useful tricks in crime that you can apply to SF? Or, instead, is genre not really something you think about at all when you're writing?
|
|
|
Post by Chirugal on Nov 3, 2004 14:51:37 GMT
That said, if you think the story needs it and you can devote enough time to 6 characters (and you mean 6 points of view, right?), write it and see what happens. I'm writing in third person, so it's more like an overview of all six people... wait, now I'm confusing myself! I think Mouse was wanting to ask this question (she's finding it hard to get online at the moment): How can you include a lot of information necessary to the plot without overloading and boring the reader?
|
|
|
Post by Mouse on Nov 4, 2004 1:55:20 GMT
*thinks net is now sorted again...* Chir's right. I've been thinking about it a bit lately, because my current story contains some pretty complex concepts that the reader has to know before the story can really get going. I've been trying to write the beginning so that the info is built into scenes instead of just dumping chunks of it on the reader, but I'm not sure just how successful it's being...
|
|
|
Post by Jocasta on Nov 4, 2004 20:24:16 GMT
Hey Maxine, Question for you... you are really good at melding genres, especially crime and science fiction. Have you picked up any useful tricks in crime that you can apply to SF? Or, instead, is genre not really something you think about at all when you're writing? Thank you for that pretty compliment BVG! Not sure if it's deserved, but.. I think the reason many of my novels (okay, all of them!) have a strong mystery-type plot is that a) I have always read a lot of crime, because it's great relaxation fiction, often less demanding than sf and b) because crime novels must have a strong narrative line by their very nature, and this narrative is usually linear. Someone's dead--who killed them--detective looks at clues and gradually finds out--denouement. The crime writer grabs the reader's attention with a strong beginning--how much stronger than a murder can you get? and then keeps that attention by gradually revealing things. Kind of an intellectual strip-show. So this strong narrative line is a good way to hold a reader, which is what we all want to do, right? And, as a bonus, it offers a steady structure around which to build your plot. If there are any 'tricks' to be learned from crime fiction, I think it is in this careful structure. Of course, it doesn't have to be the solution of a crime that you're aiming for--your revelation can be much more subtle or psychological. In sf, it's probably more of the secret-of-the-universe type. Also, crime writers must be scrupulously fair to the reader--they're not allowed to withold information crucial to the plot and then spring it later at the last minute. The information must be there, but it can be hidden. And when we do realise how important it was, there should be that "ohmigod, why didn't I realise?" effect. In "Five Red Herrings", Dorothy Sayers lists everything at the scene of the crime EXCEPT the essential item that tells us who killed the man. That item should have been there, and if you think carefully, it's lack is obvious, but on first reading of the book, nobody ever realises. Anyway, the short answer is, I guess, revelation and plot structure. And no, I don't think about genre as such when I'm writing. I just concentrate on the story. Speaking of this, I just read a short book by Peter Carey called "Wrong About Japan", in which he talks to a master sword-maker, asking him whether makiing the sword is a religious experience and whether he thought about its function as a weapon. The sword maker answered that he just concentrated on making the sword. Happy story-making. MM
|
|
|
Post by Jocasta on Nov 4, 2004 20:35:05 GMT
*thinks net is now sorted again...* Chir's right. I've been thinking about it a bit lately, because my current story contains some pretty complex concepts that the reader has to know before the story can really get going. I've been trying to write the beginning so that the info is built into scenes instead of just dumping chunks of it on the reader, but I'm not sure just how successful it's being... Hi Mouse (and Chir) Tell me about this one!! Infodumping is the ultimate sin in sf but it is oh so hard not to do. I struggle with this problem all the time and often stuff it up. The best advice that I've ever been given about this was from Margo Lanagan (a fantastic writer whose stories are a must to read), who said, 'just write the story and let the information come out if it needs to', or words to that effect. In other words, stop worrying about it, write the story as if you're the only reader. By doing this, you will be showing a lot of the information rather than telling it. Then leave the story for a while (as you should leave everything before starting to revise) and when you look at it again, you'll probably find you need a lot less information at the beginning than you thought. Readers are pretty smart people, and if you give them hints, they'll pick up a lot. You can probably ask someone to read it at this stage and tell you if there are any really obscure bits. But always ask someone familiar with the genre, otherwise you'll get questions like "but what's FTL travel?" or "how come the clone acts different to the original guy?" It's a difficult problem. Best way to learn is to write more, and also to read authors who do it well, such as Marianne. Cheers MM (who's learned how to use smileys)
|
|
|
Post by Chirugal on Nov 5, 2004 12:24:25 GMT
Ooh.. *scribbles in notepad* What do you think makes a good hero/ine and villain?
|
|
|
Post by Cj on Nov 5, 2004 17:47:43 GMT
When do you know you've got it? and by it, i dont been the writing bug but when you've found your niche and aint movin? (Cardinal Sin alert!) I'm seventeen and re-reading stuff i wrote at the beggining of this year and comparing it with now is just weird, they are like two completely different people, i'm not saying i've found my niche (i'm still a baby yet ) but i'm wondering if you knew when you had yours, and knew you were ON IT and knew this was where you were going, style wise, story wise, level of ability etc Did you hit an age, was it after talking to some writers that you developed, did you note the change or did it all just fall into place?
|
|