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Post by marianne on Jan 25, 2005 22:46:31 GMT
Hi Firelight, welcome to the place Marianne
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Post by AJWeaver on Jan 29, 2005 8:50:31 GMT
Hey AJ! Here's a question about editing: how do you become one?! Sorry to take so long to answer this - taking holidays plays havoc with publishing/editing deadlines! There is no simple answer to this question and I may not be the best person to answer it since I fell into editing by accident - and through the back door - so my experience is hardly typical. However, I'll endeavour to answer as best I can. Feel free to ask more questions if this just raises more than it answers!! Firstly, when you think about getting into editing, what do you actually mean? I suspect - as has been the case with most of my editing students - that you think of fiction and those lovely publishers who accept (reality check: turn down! ) our brillliant manuscripts! In reality this is only a very small part of the editing world. I would never tell you not to have aspirations to work in this field, but I would suggest broadening your horizons. Apart from fiction, just some of the areas to consider: magazines, newspapers, corporate/business, organisations and clubs, writers' groups, government, education, self-publishers, web sites, CD-Roms - and of course non-fiction book publishers. Do you need a degree in English? Given that an English graduate (with HONS) can still write 'should of/would of' and have no idea what's wrong with that, I honestly don't think that a degree in English is necessarily a bonus! However, any degree may help. Many positions these days insist on a degree, without specifying any particular one. If you want to work on magazines or newspapers, a degree in journalism will be of benefit. If you want to work in educational publishing, a teaching degree goes a long way. As for non-fiction, where do your interests lie? If you love history, do your degree in that and then target the publishers who specialise in that particular field. If you have a degree in IT, you could get into computer books. In other words, think creatively and follow your interests - and think outside the box. Apart from that, there are some very good courses in editing and publishing, both at university and in the TAFE system (assuming Australia, of course! Other countries may have similar colleges and courses.). The advantage of these courses, apart from the specialised training in editing skills, is that you get practical placement in a variety of editing situations - and often the students gain work from their placement. (Some students have even had to give up the course, or at least drop to part time, when they've been offered work as a result of their placement!) One thing to keep in mind, though: many writers find that editing stifles their own writing and creativity. It's sometimes very hard to turn off the editor - and the editor doesn't belong in the first draft! - particularly when editing manuscripts/documents in the same field as your own. And when working with other people's words all day, some writers don't feel like turning up at the page to find their own words. For some this isn't an issue, so you need to look at this for yourself; but if you want to be a writer, don't jeopardise your writing health simply because editing seems like a good, related field. Your creativity may actually be better served in a completely different day-time career. In the thread on writers' block, Anne recommended The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron, and I have to agree wholeheartedly with this. While I don't believe that editing necessarily means being a 'shadow artist' - i.e. taking on a related role to avoid your 'real' art - because we need editors and editing is a valid (and valuable) role in its own right, but the book itself may help in identifying your own strengths and weaknesses and in avoiding creative u-turns. As I said, this may raise more questions than it answers, so feel free to discuss. AJ
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Post by Chirugal on Feb 2, 2005 11:14:32 GMT
Thanks for the help, AJ! And when working with other people's words all day, some writers don't feel like turning up at the page to find their own words. Yeah, this would be my worry. Maybe I'd need a really boring 9-5 job so I could write in the evenings. I guess I'm just thinking "editor" because of the few things I'm really good at, spelling, punctuation and grammar are at the top of the list. (And now I've said that, I'm sure there's something grammatically incorrect about that sentence!)
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Mad Max
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Post by Mad Max on Feb 2, 2005 22:50:54 GMT
Thats a good point, whats the gangs opinion on writing in general? I guess I should quantify that, one of my best friends has been writing for as long as I've known her(15 years) and she still hasn't let me read any of her stuff. She's writing a book sequence which so far seems to be on par with The Wheel of Time in scope and diversity. But 15 years??? At first I thought she was a perfectionist, now I'm not so sure. Me on the other hand, I can't wait to finish to start showing it around (I usually jump the gun and start showing before the serious editing/grammer,spelling has been checked, much to my chagrine) . I'm of the belief that writing solely for oneself is defeating the purpose of the enjoyment of the art unless others can draw from the piece the imagination and work put into it. Don't get me wrong I know personal writing to clear ones head and so on is for oneself but I'm talking about pieces which will eventually be published (god willing). Isn't it better to get feedback on these things just to see if one is headed in the right direction? I'm notorious for laughing at my own work when I've left the piece long enough to forget it. What does the gang reckon? I realise some of us are polishing our art to make a profession out of it, but is the written word to be shard with the world or is it to be kepted close, hoarded until just so or perfect no matter how long it takes?
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Post by Chirugal on Feb 2, 2005 23:31:47 GMT
I am what's known in certain circles as a "review-whore". Really, what happens with me is that I write fanfic and chuck it up on fanfiction.net - and not to be condescending or anything, but the standard of 90% of the material on there is completely dire. Therefore, most people on that site completely kiss my feet and tell me how wonderful my writing is. On one level, this gives me confidence, and motivates me to write my next chapter, etc. But on the other hand, there are two problems. One, I never get any constructive criticism. It's always "This is great!" or, rarely, "This sucks!" I have a few people give me tips, but the vast majority are just ego-boosting reviews. The second problem is that you go to the reviews section of a story with no clear plot, characterisation, spelling or grammar, and the same reviewers who're praising you are also praising them. So, it kind of makes you wonder... ... anyway, that's fanfic. My original 'novel' that I'm trying to write, I will show to a few select people, but I feel quite embarrassed about it. And the short pieces I have to write for my course, I'm going to slam up on fictionpress. I guess the novel's just my baby. Sorry, I think that's about the longest post I've done at once!
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Post by Mouse on Feb 2, 2005 23:39:21 GMT
First and foremost, I write for me. I do it because I love it, and every publisher in the world could say I was useless and it wouldn't stop me. That having been said, I love to share my stuff. Probably a bit too much, because I also show things to people before it's ready (ie two seconds after I put in the last fullstop). But I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, at least for me and the way I write. Once I finish a first draft, especially of something that's taken a long time, I find it therapuetic and helpfull to let someone read it and then talk it out with them. So, when I go to do the second draft, I have things that were twisted straigtened out and gaping plot holes filled in. Talking about things really helps me sort it out. I think it depends on what helps you as a writer, whether or not you should share your work at early stages or not.
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Mad Max
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Post by Mad Max on Feb 3, 2005 13:40:24 GMT
Review whore huh? I have to remember that one. On the one hand I want feedback as I'm writing and before the second draft because I've only really taken writing quasi seriously in the last couple of months and still need direction. The piece I just finished went from 16k-21k (40 - 54pages) between drafts Well I've only started since talking to the gang really. It's actually all Chirugal's fault, if it wasn't for your post for fictionpress and me seeing the "quality" of what other people were writing that prompted me to start myself. The hardest thing so far is balancing the too much discriptive versus too lite so the reader is not sure with whats going on. And don't get me started on dialogue, eek! Any way, I'm sure it won't be too long now till fictionpress pull their fingers out and then everyone can have a critique, its only been five days. (that was sarcasm btw).
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Post by Chirugal on Feb 3, 2005 15:00:38 GMT
Woo hoo! Being blamed for someone writing is high praise indeed... ^_^ I'm going to check out your stuff, and ouse's stuff, and CJ's stuff, and bout seven other people's stuff... I promise. I'm just beta-reading for one girl at the moment, and trying to write my own stuff, and I get easily distracted. I guess I'm a pretty crap friend that way - but I will get round to it. If I haven't by this time next month you have my permission to Parrish-boot me up the arse.
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Post by firelight on Feb 5, 2005 20:58:42 GMT
Thanks, AJ, for the interesting reply on editing.
I've done a bit of stuff, but don't know if they willl ever be good enough to show to anyone. I've been writing since I was 9, and my current wip has been a wip since I was 13 (I'm now 20 going on 21)...which is a really long time to be working on something! the problem is that i used to start on projects then abandoned them after two chapters. So one day I hit on what I believed (still believe) to be a brilliant idea for a fantasy novel and told myself that I won't quit on it until i get it done. It's still not done!
The thing with me is that i usually find it really hard to motivate myself to write anything and i cringe whenever i see anything i've written, yet i have quite a few lovely ideas floating around in my head. so if i don't write them, what on earth would i do with them?
what i have found is that i love ideas and i love words and i love books. the fantasy writer Holly Lisle says there are 2 kinds of 'writers' - those who like to write and those who like to have written. I've been wondering if i belong to the second category...that maybe my true passion is for reading books, not writing them. Maybe i should do something else related to books / writing (like editing) rather than attempt to be a writer.
My love of books is undeniable - i read voraciously and consider it something close to sacrilegious when my sister skims through books to "get the gist of the story". So i have been wondering if I am misguided in thinking i want to be a writer....my mum wrote as a hobby and that was how i got started, imitating mum. maybe it's all just a carry-over from my childhood. But when i think about quiting....i don't know....i do go for months without writing a single word but i know it's always there for me to come back to....and i just can't imagine my life without writing, though i don't seem very enthusiastic on a day-to-day basis. I suppose i could write as a hobby, not expecting to be published but that feels like the cowards's way out....how can you develop yourself into the best writer you can possibly be, if you never discipline yourself, if you always tell yourself "oh never mind, no one will ever read this junk anyway!".
I guess you can say i'm sort of at a crossroads - not knowing what to expect of myself, not knowing if i'm just wasting my time over castles built on thin air.
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Mad Max
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Post by Mad Max on Feb 6, 2005 10:47:51 GMT
Call me old fashioned if you will but how in any way can it be wrong if you, we, me are doing what we love.
Lets face, life isn't that much fun without a little art. For most people thats bopping along to music on thier way to work, for some lucky few of us we are lucky enough to have imagination and the ability to string two words together. We're lucky enough to find enjoyment in it. If it turns out just to be for us and our friends then so be it.
What I'm trying to say (not very well I might add) don't write to be published, don't write to an expectation of it being good enough for every one else, write so its good enough for you and that you can enjoy it. If your really lucky after you hit that mark then one day you just might find someone else that loves it as much as you do.
Well, thats my two cents worth. Hope I havne't stepped on too many toes.
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Post by Chirugal on Feb 6, 2005 12:03:32 GMT
Don't worry MM, That sounds about right to me.
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Post by Kayne on Feb 7, 2005 6:17:55 GMT
Hey, everybody.
I borrowed Code Noir from my local library two days ago, and finished it in under 2 1/2 hours (not my record but bloody darn close). I'm on my third re-read. Needless to say (but i will anyway) that i love it. Loved so much in fact that i took a poke around online and came across Torleys. So here i am. My congratulations to you Ms. de Pierres on a bloody good read. I guess I'll see you all around then (and my even post some fiction if i can get off my behind).
Cya, Kayne
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Post by Mouse on Feb 7, 2005 14:00:57 GMT
*gets to be first person to welcome newbie* Welcome! ;D Hope you have fun round here, we're generally a nice bunch of people. None of us bite, except maybe Chir, and we try to keep her muzzled. Nah, kidding, we love Chir.
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Post by Chirugal on Feb 7, 2005 16:45:26 GMT
Too right! I only bite where people ask me to... I love you guys too... *group hug* Welcome in, Kayne! Hope you enjoy it here! ;D
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Post by Cj on Feb 7, 2005 17:24:03 GMT
Hey Kayne! Welcome!! Hope to see some of your fiction that would be sooooo cool!
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