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Post by Chirugal on May 7, 2005 18:53:03 GMT
Cheers, Richard. Have you written anything out of the sci-fantasy genre? And if not, do you think you ever would, or could? I completely agree with you when you said that a world outside of fiction is more interesting and results in a more emotional and stimulating world, I’ve been ringing that bell for ages! Haven't we all, CJ... some people just won't listen though.
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Post by marianne on May 7, 2005 23:49:55 GMT
Hi Richard,
I was asked this question myself recently and it was interesting to think it through. What would you like to have written (and published) in ten years time?
best MDP
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Post by Cj on May 8, 2005 17:45:01 GMT
This question just came up, on another forum they were talking about taboo's within "and outside" writing
is there such i thing, i would expect writing to be 'anything goes' am i wrong?
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Post by marianne on May 8, 2005 22:55:30 GMT
is there such i thing, i would expect writing to be 'anything goes' am i wrong? Hi Cj, this is a really interesting q. I know from writing for the children's educational market that there are taboos there. Funnily enough a few years ago I was writing for a primary school series and we were told, no witches, ghosts, wizards, magic. The next year Harry Potter came out. I thought afterwards that I should never have listened to such censorship and just written the stories I wanted to write. If you write a captivating story, taboo subjects tend to get overlooked. If you don't then the next thing people are jumping up and down about content. I watched a programme on Rushdie recently. I guess he is the best example of someone who has. Does he regret it? I doubt it. Interested to hear what you guys think. MDP
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Post by Sheepie on May 9, 2005 0:34:03 GMT
Oh dear, am I too late?
Did I miss Richard? I've been in England for the last two weeks.
I adored Black Crusade. Fabulous stuff. So often work like that gets overlooked by publishers when really it is just the kind of stuff, I and many others like to read.
I get most of my similar reading unpublished from Adam Browne... who you probably know. And since I tend to write sf-quirk, I think it is nice for writers like Adam and I to see work like The Black Crusade doing so well. I've almost given up on the sf industry.
Richard, would you be interested in hosting a similar Q & A thread as a guest at the sffworld.com board later this year? I've already roped Marrianne in. It's an international board with a few thousand members. Marrianne may be able to tell you if she thinks it is worth the effort in terms of spreading the word.
Back to the current thread of the thread, I think anything goes and you should write what you like... maybe you shouldn't always expect to sell it tho.
There are 'discussions' in the children's industry at the moment because a company has issued a few books where the child has same sex parents. I haven't read the books but I'd like to hope the same sex parents were incorporated into the storylines naturally.
If something exists then there's probably a story that can be told about it. Hopefully a good story tho and not just controversy for the sake of it.
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Post by richardharland on May 9, 2005 5:06:34 GMT
Thanks Richard, I might test the water on some writing groups (or at least scare the fiction people for a while ) I completely agree with you when you said that a world outside of fiction is more interesting and results in a more emotional and stimulating world, I’ve been ringing that bell for ages! Hi Cj, Umm … I'm not quite sure what I've been saying ... maybe I got possessed and taken over by alien voices … or maybe I'm missing your angle. If I've ever said anything against fiction, I hereby swear that I never meant it (maybe I left out a 'not'?). In writing workshops, I encourage people to use their powers of imagination - if that's the only success I have, I'm happy. As for 'a world outside of fiction' - I thought I was saying that a fictional world is great precisely because it can be more intensely emotional and more stimulating than the everyday world... I'm guessing here, but did you mean that it's not a good idea to derive story/world ideas only from other fiction. That I agree with (though I didn't know I'd said it). I believe in going back to grass roots and imagining everything from the ground up - not relying on established images from books or movies. (What makes Tolkien so great? - the fact that nobody had done it before, so he HAD to do all his describing and creating from scratch.) I'd be having myself on if I claimed that none of the inventions in my books has been influenced by other books - but I do claim that everything is thoroughly re-invented, and AS IF experienced for the first time! (I hope!) Cheers Richard
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Post by richardharland on May 9, 2005 5:14:09 GMT
Cheers, Richard. Have you written anything out of the sci-fantasy genre? And if not, do you think you ever would, or could? Hi Chirugal! I don't know - I think of fantasy (in the broad sense) as the widest genre there is. (Small 'f' fantasy, so that SF and horror could come under it too.) Funny how the word 'genre' suggests restriction, when the possibilities for fantasy are limitless! So many imaginable worlds compared to this one narrow real world. So no, I think I'd ever want to write anything that wouldn't be fantasy-oriented in some kind of way. The monologue short stories I used to publish (over 20 years ago now) were literary rather than fantasy - but still not realistic. Cheers richard edited for dropped quote-tag - Amy
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Post by richardharland on May 9, 2005 5:19:34 GMT
Hi Richard, I was asked this question myself recently and it was interesting to think it through. What would you like to have written (and published) in ten years time? Hi Marianne! Ah, that's a biggie! I don't work with ambit ambitions (hmm ... interesting play of words) but rather with seeds which start growing. At the moment I'm cultivating the seed for a really large fantasy novel that would give me scope to develop characters on a fuller scale than ever before Ebut who knows if the seed will flower in the end? Oh, and I suppose there'll have to be a sequel or pre-prequel to The Black Crusade eventually. At the moment, though, I haven't got the tiniest shred of an idea what it would be! Cheers richard edited for dropped quote-tag - Amy
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Post by richardharland on May 9, 2005 5:34:48 GMT
This question just came up, on another forum they were talking about taboo's within "and outside" writing is there such i thing, i would expect writing to be 'anything goes' am i wrong? Hi Cj! I'm wondering about the distinction between taboos INSIDE and taboos OUTSIDE writing - sounds interesting. I guess the thing about taboos is that you have to see them to break them - for e.g. if you show almost-real sex in a movie then the next step is actual real sex. Or exposed belly-button - shadow of pubic hair - full pubic hair - glimpse of genitalia ... it's as predictable as when fashion moved skirts year by year higher towards the knee! Everyone's ready for those kinds of progression - the people who push further and the people who make a clamour about having already gone quite far enough. There are ways of being controversial to just the right degree that hits the media and generates sales. I don't personally set out to break taboos - and I definitely dislike stories that I feel have been shaped in order to break taboos. I believe in following a story where it wants to go without thinking of taboos. This probably explains my expression of surprise and injured innocence when people are upset by something I've written! (Though probably only The Vicar, The Black Crusade and a couple of stories have ever really upset anyone.) Cheers richard
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Post by richardharland on May 9, 2005 5:44:02 GMT
I know from writing for the children's educational market that there are taboos there. Funnily enough a few years ago I was writing for a primary school series and we were told, no witches, ghosts, wizards, magic. The next year Harry Potter came out. I thought afterwards that I should never have listened to such censorship and just written the stories I wanted to write. If you write a captivating story, taboo subjects tend to get overlooked. If you don't then the next thing people are jumping up and down about content. I watched a programme on Rushdie recently. I guess he is the best example of someone who has. Does he regret it? I doubt it. Interested to hear what you guys think. Hi Marianne! Yes, the children's educational market has amazing taboos and requirements. A professional writer friend of mine recently had to change a story that contained pirates for the US market. Why? - because some of the kids reading might have escaped by boat from Cuba, giving them traumatic memories. You wouldn't want a total state of anything-goes for kids fiction, but some of the rules ...! I suspect there are some people out there who like the power of enforcing rules for the sake of it. (The same kind of person who would be measuring the height of lawn-bowlers hemlines above the ground.) Cheers Richard edited for dropped quote-tag - Amy
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Post by richardharland on May 9, 2005 6:03:07 GMT
Oh dear, am I too late? Did I miss Richard? I've been in England for the last two weeks. I adored Black Crusade. Fabulous stuff. So often work like that gets overlooked by publishers when really it is just the kind of stuff, I and many others like to read. I get most of my similar reading unpublished from Adam Browne... who you probably know. And since I tend to write sf-quirk, I think it is nice for writers like Adam and I to see work like The Black Crusade doing so well. I've almost given up on the sf industry. Richard, would you be interested in hosting a similar Q & A thread as a guest at the sffworld.com board later this year? I've already roped Marrianne in. It's an international board with a few thousand members. Marrianne may be able to tell you if she thinks it is worth the effort in terms of spreading the word. Back to the current thread of the thread, I think anything goes and you should write what you like... maybe you shouldn't always expect to sell it tho. There are 'discussions' in the children's industry at the moment because a company has issued a few books where the child has same sex parents. I haven't read the books but I'd like to hope the same sex parents were incorporated into the storylines naturally. If something exists then there's probably a story that can be told about it. Hopefully a good story tho and not just controversy for the sake of it. Hi Sheepie! Great to hear you liked The Black Crusade so much! The publisher (Chimaera) is big enough to have a national distributor, but not big enough to have a reputation to defend! When my agent told me that she'd never be able to place The Black Crusade with a major mainstream publisher, I was almost relieved - because it IS a cult novel. And let's face it, what mainstream publisher could afford to get involved in those publisher's footnotes (and other quirky activities outside the book itself!) Yes, I know Adam - and have a very high opinion of his writing. I think the trouble with the sf industry in Australia is simply a declining readership for books (not movies or TV, obviously). Especially the more male-oriented SF (where are you, male readers? Come back, come back!) If the breakeven point for sales is 6,000 and you have a readership of 6,005, then you may be able to make a profit on several SF books per year; but if the readership is 5,995, then no book will ever make a profit and the genre will vanish from publishers' lists. (This is my version of Mr Micawber's maxim - simplified but illuminating. Publishers don't expect a great example of writing within a genre to actually expand the number of readers of that genre.) As you say, you should write what you want to write, but don't necessarily expect it to sell. Sure, I'd be happy to join in on a Q & A thread later this year. What you're saying about 'controversy for the sake of it' fits with what I was saying about setting out to break taboos for the sake of it. (Are there some subjects so morally loaded that it's almost impossible to just write a story about them? If even the most un-preachy author can still only see them through a heavily coloured filter?) Cheers richard Cheers richard
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Post by Chirugal on May 9, 2005 15:20:13 GMT
The monologue short stories I used to publish (over 20 years ago now) were literary rather than fantasy - but still not realistic. Ah, realism is over-rated. How hard is it to come up with an idea that hasn't been 'done', and isn't cliched or obvious? (I have real confidence crises over stuff like that!)
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Post by Cj on May 9, 2005 20:03:45 GMT
Umm … I'm not quite sure what I've been saying oh no i was just saying in a science fiction or an action based world emotions can be displayed in a different way and in some way better than normal ordinary life I had this discussion with my dad over 'Leon' he said its just violence to make money thats all. I said thats not true the story delves into the character of Leon and the kid and brings out emotions that would not be normally scene if the conflict and action was missing. Maybe i'm just an action junkie!
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Post by Cj on May 9, 2005 20:08:32 GMT
about taboos i personally dont try to go out of my way to write about them. i just write whatever way the scene plays out in my head, if its not a usual or socially acceptably thing (which i havent hit much on, only killers and the odd confusion of sexual orientation, straight laced when you think about it) i dont question the scene or the possible taboo as i thought in imagination its was all okay i do understand childrens writing is bound to be different just checking though
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Post by marianne on May 9, 2005 21:11:05 GMT
Richard, would you be interested in hosting a similar Q & A thread as a guest at the sffworld.com board later this year? I've already roped Marrianne in. It's an international board with a few thousand members. Marrianne may be able to tell you if she thinks it is worth the effort in terms of spreading the word. Hi Bren (Sheepie!), welcome to Amy's board. Glad to see you here I would certainly recommend SFFworld to Richard it is a diverse and interesting site. It also keeps you in touch with what people are reading. best MDP
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